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LP/MB/NV/Indian-Tennis: Notes for week ending on May 4, 1998
(Previous week's notes) (Next week's notes) (Daily Notes Index)
May 5 Note-1
We now have a site homepage ! .. Your one-stop page to access everything !! .. 900 Million Indians have a tennis home on the Internet they can call their own !!! .. :-) .. Ok, Ok.. enough of my attempts at dramatization .. Check out the INDIAN TENNIS HOMEPAGE just launched !!!! .. The design was all by that web magician, Prakash Hemdev .. Let us thank the man .. While you are at it, take a look at his new design of the Leander Paes Homepage too .. I will continue to put info and keep the page maintained, just as before .. The Mahesh Bhupathi and Nirupama Vaidyanathan pages will also be up in the new format very soon .. We have dropped the pictures from the LP homepage now (same with the MB and NV pages coming up soon) for speedy access, but those pictures will move to this site's pictures page after that page itself is redesigned and updated with many many more pictures in the near future.
The new pages were designed by Prakash with a couple of basic concerns in mind. 1) Speedy download for all those with slow modems, and 2) No frames, crazy java codes, etc, that crash the browsers .. And of course, we wanted to make the pages crisp and professional-looking.
What more ? .. Aha .. There is .. Stay tuned; the site will have an easier web address soon too ..
As for news, nothing much happening. This turned out to be a good week for us to work on web redesign, etc. Mahesh plays tomorrow.
May 4 Note-2
Mahesh Bhupathi and Mark Knowles (#46 this week) will be playing the qualifiers, Richard Fromberg (#195, Australia) and Fabio Maggi (#295, Italy) in the first round at the German Open Super 9. This match is not in the schedule for Tuesday, and will be the only first round match remaining for Wednesday. The winner of the match will meet Berasategui/Wibier who won their first round match today.
The new rankings show Leander at #106. Two or three others within a couple of points of LP's total of 462 are just ahead of him now. Mahesh's singles rank is #289 .. The doubles rankings remain the same at #6 and #7 for MB and LP, even though they lost their points from the Prague (Czech) Open title last year. The team rank remains at #3. The Woodies have put some big distance from #2 and #3 in team points, with their title at the BMW Munich Open last week. They have 1800+ now, to Eltingh/Haarhuis at 1350 and LP/MB at 1198. The Woodies beat Eagle/Florent in the finals at Munich.. Eagle/Florent moved up to #5, tied with Bjorkman/Eltingh with 1000 points.
Nirupama picked up 17.5 points as we expected, with the wins in the last two weeks at Portugal and Croatia. However she lost a few points from last year too, and is up to 126 points from the 114 before. Her ranking has moved up to #177 (lower than I had expected, as a few women from below leapfrogged her). Niru's doubles rank remains the same at #181. She is one of the few players with exactly the same point total in doubles and singles (126) !! ..
No action from Prahlad Srinath for a while. He has not played anywhere that I am aware of, since Vadodara. There is a Futures tournament in China this week (the first in China this year) and another at Uzbekisthan, which are probably the closest to India. No Indians went to the Uzbek Futures last week; so I doubt anyone went there this week either (funny; so many of the Uzbeks come down to India for the Indian tournaments .. I guess they have more travel funds ?..). There is also the Jerusalem challenger this week, but Prahlad would have had to go there and try to qualify. Will report if I hear anything about his plans.
May 4 Note-1
Mahesh Bhupathi is playing with Mark Knowles, ranked #51 last week, at the Hamburg Super 9 .. They are seeded #6, behind #1 Ferreira/Leach, #2 Grabb/Suk, #3 Lobo/Sanchez, #4 Johnson/Montana and #5 Broad/Norval .. Looks like the doubles draw is much weaker at the Super 9 than at Monte Carlo. Now it looks as though Paes should have been playing here with Bhupathi rather than at Monte Carlo week before last (that way they could have both stayed in India after vadodara and avoided an extra back and forth trip to Europe, and Mahesh would have had a chance to play at the jerusalem challenger or something in singles .. MB's singles schedule is in utter disarray for now, and I am not sure when he will be able to pick up any points next).. But then again, you have to play against the best to improve; while they would have had more easy points at Hamburg, they surely learned something from playing a tough Eltingh/Haarhuis team at Monte Carlo. Anyway, the draw at Hamburg looks like this (the ATP site is crashing my web browser this morning, and I had to make this draw from what a lynx browser borught up; hope there are no mistakes here. Will check again and correct if there are any mistakes):
1-E. Ferreira R. Leach vs Bye \ A. Kratzmann D. Roditi vs A. Olhovskiy P. Vizner / \ T. Henman M. Rios vs T. Kempers M. Oosting \ / \ 7-J. Eagle A. Florent vs W. Ferreira Y. Kafelnikov / \_ 4-D. Johnson F. Montana vs Bye \ / | J. De Jager R. Koenig vs Qualifiers / \ / | A. Kitonov P. Nyborg vs J. Knippschild R. Schuttler \ / | 5-P. Norval N. Broad vs G. Kuerten F. Meligeni / |_ 6-M. Bhupathi M. Knowles vs Qualifiers \ | T. Haas N. Kiefer vs A. Berasategui F. Wibier / \ | J. Alonso N. Lapenti vs T. Carbonell F. Roig \ / \ | 3-L. Lobo J. Sanchez vs Bye / \_| 8-T. Kronemann D. MacPherson vs P. Albano F. Santoro \ / D. Adams B. Steven vs B. Becker G. Ivanisevic / \ / M.K. Goellner D. Prinosil vs L. Arnold D. Orsanic \ / 2-J. Grabb C. Suk vs Bye /
Bhupathi/Knowles are playing a qualifier team. Not sure yet, who that will be. Doubles final qualifiers normally get done very late.
The new rankings are not out from ATP or WTA yet .. Stay tuned for later today.
May 3 Notes
Bad news from Cardiff .. Nirupama lost in the first round of the qualifiers at the $50K Cardiff challenger, to Alice Pirsu of Romania, ranked #228, 7-6(5), 2-6, 1-6 .. Things seem to have gone totally wrong in the second and 3rd sets for her .. We should hope that there is no reaggravation of the back strain problems from earlier that she seemed to have recovered from .. Either that, or she is being very inconsistent now, as these are the kind of players she should and normally does beat .. Not sure if she is playing doubles there, as the draw will be out only by about Tuesday for that.
Mahesh Bhupathi should be reaching Europe again soon, and is expected to play at the Hamburg Super 9, if he sticks to the earlier schedule as we have. The doubles draw there should be out tomorrow, and we will have to wait to see whom he will play with. No singles for him there. Since LP is on vacation and Nirupama is out at Cardiff, that's about all there is in the coming week ..
Didn't see any updates from the junior tennis tournaments in Japan at the online Indian newspaper sites yesterday.
May 2 Notes
Awaiting news from Cardiff on how Nirupama's qualifiers are going for the $50K challenger there. I assume she is one of the seeds in the qualifiers, but it's much more difficult to predict the competition for entry in these women's challengers, compared to those on the men's side.
On thursday, The Indian Boys lost to New Zealand, but the Indian Girls beat Japan at the World Youth Cup Asia-Oceania regional tournament at Hiroshima, Japan .. The boys finished second in the pool-II of three teams, but plays Taiwan from Pool III next (I assume to determine the positions 5 through 8 ?) .. The Indian girls are now 1-2 in their league matches (the pool has 6 teams) .. Results: Boys: New Zealand d. India, 1-2 Akshay Vishal Rao d. Matthew Pinel 6-3, 6-3, Lee Radovanovich d. Kamala Kannan. Radovanovich and Simon Rea d. AV Rao and Karan Doctor 6-2, 6-1.. Girls: India d. Japan, 2-1 Shruti Dhawan d. Mariko Fritz-Krockow 3-6, 7-6(1), 6-3, Radhika Tulpule d. Junri Namigata 6-4, 6-4, Yuki Arai and Namigata d. Dhawan and Sonal Phadke 6-2, 6-1 .. Akshay Vishal Rao has been selected by the International Federation for the European under-16 circuit in May-June. Akshay will be playing the Nettuno International tournament in Bologna, Italy ( May 23-30), Sporting International tournament at Torino, Italy (May 30 - June 6), Avvenire tournament at Milano, Italy ( June 6-13), Cadet Masters at La Baule, France (June 16-21), and finally Le Pont des Generations at Le Pontet, France ( June 22-28) .. Akshay trains at the Punwire tennis academy in Chandigarh [courtesy: PTI and Indian Express] .. That's excellent opportunity for him to get some international match experience .. No other news now.
May 1 Note-2
Well, now that AITA is not telling us about the Indian domestic calendar, here is what the ITF offices in London say.. they confirm that there is indeed a men's ATP/ITF satellite circuit in India in October. This was reported in the Indian newspapers 2 days back, and I had wondered why only three cities were listed. That is incorrect and these circuits are required to be over 4 weeks. To my surprise, the 4th city, after Mumbai, Hyderabad and Bangalore turns out to be Kannoor (Kerala) !! Always good to hear of some tennis in my home state. Kerela has produced so many great athletes in volleyball, soccer, track, swimming etc, but hasn't done a thing in tennis; except for Mahesh Bhupathi's mother being from Kerala, there is nothing to talk about (while the other sports strongholds like Maharashtra, Karnataka, AP, Tamil Nadu, Punjab and Bengal have done their bit) ! .. Hope some kids will get to watch some good pro action .. Anyway, the satellite circuit starts on October 12th at Mumbai.
ITF says there was supposed to be a one week men's Futures event in November in India (which I assume was expected to be in sequence with the one Futures event in Pakistan and 2 in Bangladesh at that time), but that has just been cancelled. They said there is a chance for some to show up later in the calendar though. India needs to do a much better job of organizing these events. Italy has, for instance, 19 men's Futures events in the calendar this year, Greece has 11, Yugoslavia has 9 and even an Indonesia has something like 7, and India has had three (not to mention the women's side where we have had two futures and nothing else) .. This is the time to make some impact in Indian tennis, with a showpiece word-class team like LP-MB making all the news and Nirupama adding her bit of exploits to it. Time to market the Srinaths, Fazaluddins and Uzma Khans and organize some Futures events (and we know that Marcus Hilpert is always available .. :-)) .. The problem is that sponsorship for these kinds of events won't happen unless somebody tries .. There was a report in the Indian Express about Oleg Ogorodov's coach, who was at Vadodara, talking about what a great opportunity it is for India to sell tennis, with what LP-MB have been doing .. AITA and everybody else are in danger of missing the boat here .. Is anybody listening out there ??? ..
May 1 Note-1
The NEC World Youth Cup Asia-Oceania qualifier round competition (ITF) is going on this week at Hiroshima, Japan. The Youth Cup is for ages 16 and under .. The Indian boys are grouped with Philippines and New Zealand (there are 4 groups), and the girls are grouped with Uzbekistan, New Zealand, Korea, Malaysia and Japan (two-groups). The format is not clear to me, but probably one team advances from each of the 4 groups on the boys' side and two each advance from each group on the girls' side (with further league matches to determine the positions among the 12) .. Anyway, the Indian boys thrashed Philippines 3-0 but the girls lost both their ties .. Results Boys: India bt Philippines 3-0 (Akshay Vishal Rao bt Ronald Paz 6-2 6-2; Kamala Kannan bt Joseph Victorino 6-1 6-1; Karan Doctor & Akshay Vishal Rao bt Juan Vicente Cruz & Ronald Paz 6-1 6-2) .. Girls: Uzbekistan bt India 2-1 (Luiza Bikyakova lost to Radhika Tulpule 3-6 1-6; Iroda Tulyaganova bt Shruti Dhawan 6-2 7-5; Luiza & Iroda bt Shruti & Radhika), New Zealand bt India 2-1 (Victoria Beck bt Radhika Tulpule 6-3 6-2; Gorana Marzic bt Shruti Dhawan 6-4 1-6 6-3; Jene Ioba & Victoria lost to Shruti Dhawan & Sonal Phadke 6-4, 5-7, 4-6) [courtesy: PTI and Indian Express].. Last year in the same competition, the Indian boys had finished 5th and the girls 9th. Akshay Vishal Rao is the only one who is returning from last year among the 4 each on the boys and girls sides. Manoj Mahadevan who played last year, is not there this time (though he seems to have been in Japan last week; perhaps he does not fit the age group restriction ?) .. The NEC World Youth Cup final rounds will be at Cuneo, Italy, September 14-20, which will have the teams which advance from these ITF regional events .. There are 5 regional events, and 16 teams advance to the final round at Cuneo.
S. Kannan tells me that Uzma Khan (the 18-yr old junior #1 in India) is at the ITF junior competition at Fukuoka, Japan, where she has lost in the prequarterfinals to Fu Uda of Japan in three sets. Looks like all the kids are in Japan now, but news on these junior events are always patchy, with under-16, under-18 level competitions being seperate sometimes and with all these confusing ITF event categories (Open vs Closed vs Grade A vs Grade 1..). S.Kannan also says the Indian players are rather unhappy about the lack of a Calendar from AITA on domestic events for the rest of the year.
Apr 30 Notes
The Times of India reports today about a Tamil Nadu Tennis Association press release which says Manoj Mahadevan, the 16-yr old whom many have big hopes on, to have done very well at the Asian Closed Junior ITF tournament in Japan last week, reaching the semifinals and getting 160 points. His wins were against, Wang Chin of Taipei (1st round : 6-7 6-1 6-2), Kuramoto Hirofumi of Japan (2nd round : 6-3 6-1), Yamamoto Teisuhiro of Japan (3rd round-6-3 6-4) and Tak Jeong Mo of Korea (QF : 3-6 6-3 6-4). The semifinal loss was to the top seed Cheng Weijen of Chinese Taipei, 2-6 1-6. This tournament was listed by ITF as a B2 grade tournament for last week, but the only results I had seen from ITF for last week were for the "Japan Open", which was won by Jakob Adaktusson (Sweden, 12th in the world junior ranking), against Ladislav Chramosta (Czech Rep., 15th ranked), which means Weijen Cheng couldn't have been in the finals .. Or there were two big junior tournaments in Japan last week. Also, 160 ITF junior ranking pts seem to be quite a bit for semifinals there (even though it was a 64-draw tourney), and if true would have pushed Manoj quite a bit up from around #50 or so where he is now.. I saw the Apr 27 ITF junior top-20 and it does not have Manoj (Aisam Ul-Haq Qureshi from Pakisthan is the only Asian now in the top-20 at #16 with 370 points) . It all looks a bit puzzling. Will try to find out more. In any case, congrats to Manoj for the wins. He still has a couple of years to play Junior tennis and he is making some waves already. Incidentally, Jakob Adaktusson who won the Japan Open is the guy who beat Manoj in the Australian Open juniors first round earlier this year.
Apr 29 Notes
There was hardly any news for a while; hence the delayed update. Anyway, the ATP site has finally put up the ATP rankings. As expected, Prahlad Srinath has moved up to #467 now, his highest ranking ever, based on the 15 points he got at the Vadodara challenger. Fazaluddin moved up about 100 spots to #700 with the 8 points he had there. Mahesh Bhupathi's ranking is essentially unchanged at #292. Mahesh needs to pick up some singles points somewhere. He is expected to be at Hamburg for next week, but I doubt if he is planning on playing singles qualifiers (may not be easy to make the draw for that too), as that would mean he will have to return from India after just 2-3 days .. If he is playing doubles with somebody, he needs to get there only by Wednesday or so next week.
Some news on junior players. Two Indian kids have done well at the ITF under-14 tournament in Brunei. This was for East Asian countries, but an ITF team comprising of players from "Central Asia" (as ITF called it) also took part, with players from India, Pakistan etc. Punna Vishal (of Hyderabad and DHAITA) finished #4 on the boys' side, and Megha Vakharia (of Mumbai) finished 5th in the girls' side too. The kids at the top of the standings were: Boys: 1. Wang Yeu Tzoo (TPE), 2. S. Niazi (PAK - ITF Team), 3. T. Wada (JAP), 4. P. Vishal (IND - ITF Team), 5. E. Kurniwan (INA). Girls: 1. Tu Chobtang (THA), 2. Hsieh Su Wei (TPE), 3. Chan Chin Wei (TPE), 4. P. Ratanakrong (THA), 5. M. Vakharia (IND - ITF Team) (Source: ITF) .. This is part of International Tennis Federation's developmental plans, and an ITF team of players selected from this event will be taken to Europe for some under-14 events later this year, so I assume these two kids have a good chance for making it in. Vishal must be a talented kid .. He had pulled a big upset against the 4th seed Rohan Boppanna in the Delhi ITF junior (under-18) ranking tournament to reach the quarterfinals in February, which is pretty good for a 14 yr-old (I am assuming that the P.Vishal in the ITF newsbit is Punna Vishal ...).
In other Indian Tennis news, The Indian Express reports that there will be ITF/ATP Satellite circuit tournaments in India in October, with Mumbai, Hyderabad and Bangalore as the three legs .. I thought Satellites were normally 4 week events, but perhaps three is allowed too. Wonder if that means we are not going to have the Futures at the beginning of the year next year as this year which started with three weeks of independent $10K Futures events .. Still have not seen a calendar for the domestic events anywhere .. AITA had released a calendar to the newspapers late last year for 5-6 months which ended in March, and since then, we have no idea .. It's summer anyway, follwed by Monsoons, and not much of tennis is possible till September or so, in most parts of India. S.Kannan of Hindustan Times tells me that he has heard of some ATP challengers being planned for September onwards, but no details yet. Well, the guarantee money needs to be paid to ATP pretty soon for them to show up in the Calendar .. We need to hope that there is no repitition of all the confusion between AITA (RK Khanna) and PL Reddy last year, with the Chennai challenger never materializing and other places like Chandigarh losing out .. Things were handled in the nick of time for at least 2 challengers to happen in late November last year .. Hope it would be smoother this year.
Apr 28 Note-2
Had a chat with Nirupama today. Niru is down with a bad cough. She was up 5-3 in the second set today, however, against Mauresmo, but couldn't pull it off, as Amelie came up with some great tennis to close it out with 4 games in a row. The bad news is that Niru had to play doubles also today, and lost to Marosi/Plischke (forgot to get the scores .. will know soon). She does feel good about her tennis and likes the clay season, as that is perhaps her best surface .. She has recovered from the back strain she had at Dubai (which was why she did not play doubles at Portugal last week; the 4 days of rest she got before the start at Portugal helped a lot, she says). Next up for Niru is the $50K challenger in Cardiff, and then the $75K challenger in Portugal, followed by French Open quals (as at our schedules page). The great news is that Niru made it into the French Open qualifiers as the last direct entry (they used the rankings from a couple of weeks back, when she was at #174) !! ..
As for Nirupama's rankings points, she has hardly anything to defend for a while (till late summer, when she loses the points from the semifinals at Bronx, NY), so she will basically be moving up from now on .. She had about 9 points last week from Portugal (which will be in the computer next week), and 8 points here from Bol (coming in most probably next week itself), which will bring her total up from 114 to over 130, and move her ranking up about 15-20 spots from the current 183 .. Stay tuned from now on, to see how high she goes !
Apr 28 Note-1
Nirupama Vaidyanathan lost in the first round of the Bol, Croatia Tournament, to #71 Amelie Mauresmo, 1-6, 5-7 .. Well, that would have been a huge upset if she could pull it, so the result is not exactly unexpected. Congrats to her for making into a WTA event singles main draw for only the 4th time in her career (Japan and Jakarta last year and Aus.Open and Bol this year .. I believe that's correct; I will check on that) .. She still has doubles to play out there, and comes out with some little prize money for playing in the main draw of a Tier-IV event. The girl who beat Nirupama in the final round of the qualifiers, Sylvia Talaja has pulled an upset over Sylvia Plischke in the first round of the main draw, 1-6, 6-2, 6-2 .. So, Talaja is playing some hot tennis, I guess.
The complete list of new ATP rankings are still not at the ATP site, but LP is at 103 in singles, and #7 in doubles. MB is at #6 in doubles (Kafelnikov managed to stay ahead of him). They got only 169 points from Monte Carlo, which means that the sum-rank for Albano and Corretja must have fallen below 150 and they got only 3 bonus points from that match (since I had no ranks over #50 available last week, I was in the dark there with my predictions earlier). Anyway, LP now has 3220 and MB has 3293, with a team point total of 1198 for 1998. Check out the updated LP-MB doubles point-total page for details of their points. They have the Prague Open points (60+) and the falling off this week and the Jerusalem challenger points (60+) falling off next week, being replaced by other tournament points .. LP's total will fall by about 140 and MB's total will fall by about 110 in two weeks, but their ranks shouldn't change much (as there are only 8 players over 3000 in the ATP list) .. Mahesh's singles ranking is still unknown, and no updates since Apr 13th on that.
Apr 27 Note-3
News keeps trickling in .. Just got an email from the Bol-Croatia web gurus that Nirupama lost the final round qualifiers but has made it into the main draw as the second lucky loser (OK, I am patting myself on my back for that analysis and prediction earlier .. :-)) .. She faces Amelia Mauresmo of France ranked #71 .. As far as I know, the next round opponent is the winner of the (first seed) Joannette Krueger vs qualifier match .. But she needs to pull a huge upset to get past Mauresmo. Go Niru !!
The Tournament website is not working .. Now, that's a rarity, isn't it ? :-) .. Anyway, I should thank those guys for sending me info. They are working on the bugs and hopefully, we will have scores, results and news up there soon.
Apr 27 Note-2
Nirupama is also playing doubles at Bol, Croatia, in the main draw .. She is pairing with Maria Fernanda Landa of Argentina (ranked 164 in doubles), and is drawn against Katalin Marosi (#124, Hungary) and Sylvia Plischke (#154, Austria) .. Interestingly, Plischke had recently played with Niru at the Houston challenger and beaten Marosi and Aizenberg in doubles .. Also, Landa and Weingartner had beaten Niru and Rebecca Jensen at the Makarska event two weeks back too .. If you can't beat them, join them ?.. :-) .. OK, for even more tidbits, the player whom Niru beat in round-1 of the qualifiers this weekend, Petra Rampre, was her doubles partner at the Dubai challenger 3 weeks back .. More later, once I get hold of a schedule at Bol for the singles and doubles matches.
Apr 27 Note-1
Great news!! Nirupama Vaidyanathan is in the main draw at the $107K Croatian Ladies Championship at Bo, Croatia, as far as I can figure out. She won the first two rounds of the qualifiers (in round 1, she beat 219th ranked Petra Rampre of Slovak Republic, 6-4, 6-3, and in round-2 she upset the 8th seed in the qualifiers, 174th ranked Eva Martincova of Czech Republic, 3-6, 6-2, 6-2 .. courtesy: Michael Blue) .. The 3rd round results are not known, but I think it doesn't matter .. I hear that there have been two withdrawals from the main draw, and there will be two lucky loser spots in addition to the 4 qualifier spots. One of the two lucky loser spots will go to the final round loser among the only two seeds remaining in the qualifier draw, who are playing each other (Tina Krizan and Raluca Sandu) ! .. Since Nirupama is the next highest ranked player left in the qualifiers, she will get the other lucky loser spot, even if she loses the final round match, which I believe is against Sylvia Talaja of Croatia, ranked #223 .. We will wait and see for the final draw to come out .. I am trying to find out if the final round of qualifiers has been done already .. They tend to play those on Monday morning .. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Great to see Niru getting back to the winning ways .. The score of the comeback win against Martincova suggests that she took her completely out of the game in the last two sets ..
Saw a top-120 singles rank list as of today. Leander stays put at #103. Will have to wait and see if the ATP site will ever update the rankings (apparently ATP still has not sent the rankings of *last week* to the website guys .. sloppy, sloppy, sloppy ..)
Here is something interesting from the ATP site's news update today .. "The song tells us "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun," so where does that leave the guys on the ATP Tour? Last Thursday, at the annual players' cabaret, they found the perfect way around this problem. Goran Ivanisevic sported pig-tails, Andrea Gaudenzi a bra, and Diego Nargiso glossy lipstick as they joined Nicolas Lapentti and Goran's physio Robert Prusac in the debut performance of the ATP Tour's very own Spice Girls. They brought the house down at the Monte Carlo Casino with a sultry version of "Too Much", and followed it with an up-beat cover of "I'm so excited" ... Other highlights included Leander Paes and Mahesh Bhupathi starring with Francisco Montana and Don Johnson in a revamped version of Miami Vice and Magnus Gustafsson, Magnus Norman and Thomas Nydahl floating around as ballet dancers" .. Hmmm .. How about that ? .. At least they won their match on Friday, despite all the latenight fun at Monte Carlo .. What's it with Indians and the "Vice" shows ? ... Some may remember Vijay Amritraj as Shivrambhai Poonchawallah, supposedly from "Calcutta-Vice", in that mid 80s TV series called the "36th Precinct".. By the way, this Don Johnson has no relation to the original Don Johnson of Miami Vice ..